The Place Where Your Rights End is Where My Rights Begin


Posted by Omnipotent Poobah

I’m an atheist, or as I like to think – a “friendly” atheist. I know about religion’s dark side. The many, many wars over whose holy is holier than thou’s. The hypocrisy rampantly on display on C-Span, in St. Peter’s Square, and before various ethics groups and committees. Religion used as a bludgeon to pummel other beliefs into – if not in compliance – vapor. Yet, I still see a place for religion in the public square.

Life is a dark ride. Anything that helps people get through the night is a good thing. Heck, sometimes I even envy believers’ ability to say a few words and be instantly comforted. But, that isn’t how I’m wired. I don’t believe in God so any strength I need to summon comes from within. I view it as a nearly pure form of self-reliance and responsibility. It’s a stance that’s worked well for me and I see no reason to change.

I believe that someone else’s rights end at the place where they impinge upon mine. If religious groups insist on placing “In God We Trust” on money, I’m cool. The money spends the same as it always has. I’m not being deprived of anything.

However, I understand the argument that every display of religion be removed from the public square so the country doesn’t slide down the slippery slope to theocracy. But in exchange for this live and let live pragmatism, I expect a little respect in turn.

For example, formalized prayer in school impinges on the freedom to NOT practice a religion. Some schools endorse it in such a way as to cause kids embarrassment, something that isn’t good for the kid, me, or society. I’ll trade the “In God We Trusts” for praying to oneself any time they want – even in the classroom – as long as you do it privately.

The same is true for Christians’ seemingly unquenchable desire to nail the Ten Commandments to every flat surface on Earth. Don’t get me wrong. I think the 10 Commandments are as good any ethical checklist you’re likely to find anywhere. But, I don’t think it’s necessary to post it in so many places that you can’t swing a bottle of holy water without hitting one. If you must be reminded to be good every 10 minutes you aren’t paying enough attention to your religion anyway. And if you must be reminded, keep a copy in your wallet and pull it out each time you’re feeling compelled to worship no God before Him.

I’m always dismayed that we spend so much time on these relatively minor points. Simply-speaking, none of these things mean a hill of communion wafers in the end.

But there are important issues. For example, same-sex marriage or gays in the military. Treating homosexuals different from the majority-religion is wrong, constitutionally and morally. In my mind, that’s where a religion’s insistence on forcing gay people to be someone they aren’t is where religion’s rights should end.

I’ve yet to see an example of homosexuals having their rights denied based on any substantial evidence. Gay sex doesn’t affect a religion’s rights to practice what they preach. Same-sex marriage doesn’t devalue the sanctity of marriage any more than divorce does. It doesn’t cause anyone to turn gay. It doesn’t even force you to accept it. You can continue to hate gay people. It’s your right to associate or love anyone you wish, just as it is a gay person’s.

When I ask these questions of anti-gay religious groups I’ve gotten only one of two answers. The sound of crickets chirping and “because the Bible tells me so”.

If one chooses to not believe the Bible, it holds no more water than Creationism or Intelligent Design.

Any democracy worth its salt understands and respects different beliefs. Just because Christianity is the predominate religion doesn’t mean that all other expressions of faith (or no faith) be verboten. It doesn’t mean that Christians shouldn’t have the right to practice their faith either. But to get along, we all have to understand the rights and responsibilities of who we are.

And that’s no different than any other part of the human existence.

Related articles

Reblog this post [with Zemanta]

8 Responses to The Place Where Your Rights End is Where My Rights Begin

  1. Craig,
    I’ll suggest that to some of my more incalcitrant friends. It’s a good experiement.

    DNY,
    It certainly would be good if all religions got along. It would be great if political parties, neighbors, husbands and wives, and WWE wrestlers got along too. But, I’m not holding my breath.

    Cracker,
    My thanks. I’m not sure everyone would agree with your “reasonable”observation though. But the, I don’t pretend to be reasonable.

    Graham,
    I agree that finding the tipping point is the rub and I certainly find myself confronted by fundamentalists more often than others. I’m usually disappointed when, even after making concessions, I don’t get an equivalent response in return, but then I don’t know if we’d agree even if all things are equal. Before we can rub the rub, we have to agree on where the itch is and there are plentyi of people on both sides that seem to want to make that inordinately difficult.

    Batocchio,
    You have a point about the strictly religious commandments, but then again I just reword tose in my head to be consistent with what I think a good person should do. It fills in the blanks because 10 is a nice even number.

    Another,
    You have a point. Since being atheist is based on the idea that you seek concrete, verifyable reasons for things it normally (though not exclusively) attracts those who are question more and would rather have less structure to the world than most fundamentalists.

    The odd thing is, I’ve spoken to quite a few of my believing friends and they and I both can see that not all fundamentalist positions are mutually exclusive.

    For example, if you take the Big Bang metaphorically, which in my mind is probably a good thing for Christians and atheists alike, and not assign the “cause” of it to be the work of a higher power, but simply the idea of physics. It’s pretty compatible.

    In other words, the devil is in the detail.

  2. Graham Firchlis said “The view held by many religious fanatics, that they are under attack by the secular world…” One problem is that the religious fanatics are, in a way, right. While there is no significant intentional effort to abolish religion, the tendency to look for empirically supported answers rather than simply consulting the relevant holy book weakens all religion.

    I have long thought that this is the true cause of violent fundamentalism (and I refer to all varieties, not just the Islamic one). Fundamentalists by nature abhor uncertainty and take comfort in the clarity and intellectually unchallenging certainty of a simple black-and-white interpretation of their chosen holy writings. Secularism, and particularly western materialism with its emphasis on rapid social and technological change, strike at the very foundations of tradition, including traditional religion. Because the traditional religionists cannot adapt to a rapidly changing world and cannot accept that change is going to happen with or without them, they turn to “the last refuge of the incompetent”; violence

  3. But in exchange for this live and let live pragmatism, I expect a little respect in turn.

    Yes, exactly. One quibble – You may be better off with 7 or fewer commandments rather than the full 10 (different denominations count them slightly differently), since the first tablet is all about how to properly worship God. But sure, don’t lie, cheat or steal – good stuff.

  4. You’re correct of course about rights having boundaries. How those are established to everyone’s satisfaction is the rub. The view held by many religious fanatics, that they are under attack by the secular world, is part and parcel of their belief system and how they value themselves, as real to them as is our view that we as secularists are having the religious views of others foisted on us. Their argument is based on their perception, not objective reality; we must be careful to ensure ours does not become the same. That’s why I’ve settled on being an agnostic rather than an atheist; I just don’t feel I have justification for claiming proof of a truth that I cannot know.

    Somehow, and I don’t have any immediate answers, we agnostic and atheist secularists need to find an enlightened way to defend ourselves and our independence from the fanatics while not simultaneously antagonizing those more moderate on the religious side who might, in trying to make a better world in the here-and-now, be our allies. Until then there is nothing for it but full-on confrontation with the whackos, but until we can broaden our alliances that will never be more than a delaying tactic.

    I’m convinced that the basis for much if not most of what we see from the grassroots on the religious right and other various far-right movements is bigotry. They won’t ever go away, the angry reactionary bigots, but I do believe they can be contained.

  5. Terrific post. Very reasonable. It’s good for many reasons, but the best is that it finally provides a answer to the stupid snarky question, “Okay, so why don’t you get rid of your money, since it says ‘In God We Trust’?”

  6. wouldnt it be great if all religions could respect each other – nice thought but terribly unrealistic

    with so much hate and strife caused in the name of religion – a part of me wonders how anyone could believe in any of the crap that is spewed by the hierarchies.

    but then i remember these same people listen to rush and voted for bush – and i stop wondering and now understand.

  7. I used to glibly respond that gays have always had the right to marry any person of the complementary gender they wished. Then I performed a little thought experiment: suppose the status quo were same gender marriages only and some nit-wit told me that I had a right to marry any member of my own gender I wished? It gave me a new perspective on things.

  8. Pingback: www.buzzflash.net